Kirchenkreis Soltau

[barberchris]

Apologies for newbie questions..

It’s not very clear to me... so the books exist but have not been scanned yet? There is an old thread with someone claiming to have personally-made scans.

Kirchenbücher Lüneburg und Soltau

Für alle, die in Niedersachsen im Sprengel Lüneburg forschen. Ich habe eine Mail an das Landeskirchliche Archiv Hannover geschickt und folgende Antwort erhalten. 'vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage zu den Kirchenbüchern in Archion-Kirchenbuchportal.` Aufgrund der Größe unserer Landeskirche und...

www.archion.de

If I am motivated to get a look at these records, is my only option to go directly to the archive? Which archive would this be?

 

[vnagel2004]

Yes, the church registers exist, have been microfilmed decades ago, but are not yet digitized as of yet. And thus the archive in Hannover hasn't delivered the digitized records to Archion - bottom line: Archion has nothing to make online available.


Anyway, are you already aware of the online available

Ortsfamilienbuch Soltau

Online Ortsfamilienbuch Soltau

www.online-ofb.de

May be that already helps to find at least some information regarding the persons you are trying to find / research.

In case you want to have a look at the microfilmed church registers please refer to the pinned topic:

Microfiches beim NLF lesen (ehem. Bestand Lesestelle LKA Hannover)

Zur Vorgeschichte sei auf diesen Thread verwiesen: "Zentrale Lesestelle beim Kirchenbuchamt Hannover AUFGELÖST"...

www.archion.de

 

[vnagel2004]

Als nächste Uploads aus der Zuständigkeit der Landeskirche Niedersachsen sind im letzten Archion Newsletter, erscheinen Ende Juni 2023, angekündigt worden:

Niedersachsen: Landeskirchliches Archiv Hannover
Kirchenkreise Göttingen, Lüneburg und Stade

 

[barberchris]

Anyway, are you already aware of the online available

Ortsfamilienbuch Soltau

Online Ortsfamilienbuch Soltau

www.online-ofb.de

May be that already helps to find at least some information regarding the persons you are trying to find / research.

Thanks for the reply. I had indeed stumbled on this one. I wasn’t sure how reliable it is. I expect to find maybe a Nottorf/Notdorf born in Soltau in 1856 based on this bio

Memorial and Biographical Record of Iowa - 1896 - N

There definitely seem to be many but none in 1856

Familiennamenliste Ortsfamilienbuch Soltau

From the looks of it, I should see in that list even if the birth record is “outside” Soltau. Some information in that bio seems anyways to be wrong because I can’t find any existence of a Benigen. The GOV database on that site is quite nice for finding historical districts; I used it before for another location, in Preußen. Unclear what might have been meant by “Benigen.”

If I could check the microfilms and go to that spot (1856) chronologically and see the absence of a record, that would feel like a stronger negative finding than just not finding him on this site. But maybe the data on the site is high quality, and I should just keep searching elsewhere...

 

[vnagel2004]

Did you notice the Hamburg Passenger List of the ship Holsatia, departing July 1869 providing details about the departure of Hans H. Nottorf and family (incl. Wilhelm Heinrich / William Henry)?

Join Ancestry®

Begin your discovery today by exploring the world's largest online family history resource!

www.ancestry.com

Geburts-/Wohnort [place of birth / place of residence]: Millstendorf, Hannover

(Unfortunately also an non-existent place.)

Most likely "Millstendorf" is equal: Mittelstendorf - today part of Soltau.

Mittelstendorf – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

GOV :: Mittelstendorf

gov.genealogy.net

What made you think William Henry is a native of the Soltau area?
(The place name "Benigen" is derived from an obviously not 100% correct obituary published in "The Courier", Waterloo, Iowa, on 27 Nov 1939.)

 

[barberchris]

Did you notice the Hamburg Passenger List of the ship Holsatia, departing July 1869 providing details about the departure of Hans H. Nottorf and family (incl. Wilhelm Heinrich / William Henry)?

Join Ancestry®

Begin your discovery today by exploring the world's largest online family history resource!

www.ancestry.com

Wow thank you. I had a blindspot for ancestry.com; was avoiding paying the subscription. I had to buy it just now but can see the record you link.

I don’t see the “Wilhelm,” I just see Heinr[ich]. But that Heinrich being 12 is the right age for a Jul 1869 departure if he was born in Nov 1856 as that biography claims.

Geburts-/Wohnort [place of birth / place of residence]: Millstendorf, Hannover

(Unfortunately also an non-existent place.)

Most likely "Millstendorf" is equal: Mittelstendorf - today part of Soltau.

Mittelstendorf – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

GOV :: Mittelstendorf

gov.genealogy.net

Looking on google maps, Mittelstendorf is right next to a tiny village called Nottorf, so yes it seems highly likely!

What made you think William Henry is a native of the Soltau area?
(The place name "Benigen" is derived from an obviously not 100% correct obituary published in "The Courier", Waterloo, Iowa, on 27 Nov 1939.)

Yes I was just hoping I might find him there based on that bio.

So I guess “Benigen” could be a distortion of Wiedingen. If Hans H. was 44 for the 1869 departure that would make him an 1825 birth, and the only one close is this one

Ortsfamilienbuch Soltau: Hans Peter NOTTORF ✶19.11.1825

which is a Hans Peter.

 

[vnagel2004]

Margaretha C. Nottorf, nee Fessmann / Versemann

DOB 27. Nov. 1820
DOD 01. Apr. 1907 Grant Park, Kankakee County, Illinois

USA, Find A Grave-Index, 1600-heute - Ancestry.de

(also available on FindaGrave)


and here is her birth / baptism record in church register Schneverdingen - Catharina Margareta Versemann
born: 27. Nov. 1820
baptized: 30. Nov. 1820

Ancestry - Kostenloses Probeabo

name of her twin sister was: Christina

father: Christoph Versemann / Fersemann, resident in Lünzen (Luenzen), small farmer (Haeusling) and tailor (Schneider)
mother: Anna, nee Toedter, born in Grossenwede

This couple married in Schneverdingen in 1818

Ancestry - Kostenloses Probeabo

Next step would be to find the marriage "Nottorf - Versemann / Fersemann"

 

[barberchris]

Hey thanks again for doing some searching. I paid now for the ancestry membership so I can see your findings and look myself.

That marriage record says Anna Tödter, but the baptism record(s) for Catharina Versemann have her mother as Anna Schröder. I am thinking this is not the type of mutation one would expect for a name, so maybe it is not the right marriage record.

I actually don’t understand why; there is the baptism record for her that you link, and then in the top right ancestry “recommends” another one. It appears maybe the same church book was duplicated by hand for some reason? Because the entries have the same ordinal numbers and so on. But obviously different books.

Ancestry - Kostenloses Probeabo

Ancestry - Kostenloses Probeabo

In general I don’t understand why some of these books are on ancestry.com but not on archion. And on ancestry, I have no idea if all the scanned books have been digitized / made searchable, and the search also kind of sucks (difficult to search for a marriage).

If Nottorf & Versemann were married in Schneverdingen, I believe there should be an entry near the bottom of this page, which there is not.

Germany, Lutheran Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1500-1971

Germany, Lutheran Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1500-1971

www.ancestry.de

That book cuts off at 1852. Their eldest child was 17 in Jul 1869 according to the passenger list you sent, so that makes it unlikely that they married later than 1851. (Could search for that child’s record and confirm that it says “ehelich” ..)

I am glad that the books appear to be on ancestry but I liked the organization of archion for my other research so far and so it is frustrating to have to switch.

 

[barberchris]

I think that this might be the wrong Margaretha Versemann. In my tree is her daughter Viola who was born in Iowa, after they passed through Illinois. It doesn’t make much sense that she would be buried back in Illinois.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTK9-192?i=21&cc=1325221&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AM92S-ZDN

I am wondering if “Benigen” is actually Behningen

GOV :: Behningen

gov.genealogy.net

How do I know whether this Gemeinde would be in the Soltau books?

 

[barberchris]

I don’t understand -- so Schneverdingen is a different place than Soltau, so the records have apparently been digitized since they are on ancestry.com. But why aren’t they on archion? Is it a different agreement? Schneverdingen shows up in the archion search but no records show under “digital verfügbar.”

 

[vnagel2004]

I don’t understand -- so Schneverdingen is a different place than Soltau, so the records have apparently been digitized since they are on ancestry.com. But why aren’t they on archion? Is it a different agreement? Schneverdingen shows up in the archion search but no records show under “digital verfügbar.”

Ancestry, FamilySearch and the like is a totally different pair of shoes compared to Archion. They have nothing to do with one another and as far as online available church registers are concerned are based of course on totally "different agreements".

May be I wouldn't be a to bad idea to have a look at the parts of this website like "about us" or the like.

In order to find church registers on Archion please use the way as described here

How do I find the right church book? - Archion

www.archion.de

A search for: Schneverdingen returns Zero result.

 

[vnagel2004]

I am wondering if “Benigen” is actually Behningen

GOV :: Behningen

gov.genealogy.net

How do I know whether this Gemeinde would be in the Soltau books?

Well, profound research should provide an answer.
I am sorry, but so far it's something close to a "pure" guess, right? (A newspaper article is less than a secondary source.)

I hope we do agree on the fact that "district Soltau" and "church district Soltau" are something totally different than "parish Soltau".

Behningen should be in the church registers for Neuenkirchen (Lüneburger Heide)

In general the "Kirchengemeindelexikon" der Evangelisch-Lutherischen Landeskirche Hannover / Niedersachsen should be helpful.

kirchengemeindelexikon.de | Historisches Kirchengemeindelexikon der Evangelisch-lutherischen Landeskirche Hannovers (HKLH)

kirchengemeindelexikon.de

 

[vnagel2004]

Also helpful is

Statistisches Handbuch für das Königreich Hannover

books.google.de

...then in example search for: Behningen

 

[barberchris]

Wow great resources; these are completely new to me.

I had very good luck with my first region of research (Perleberg) for which availability on archion was very good. Trial and error and using poor sources or guesses was good enough because I could check many church books quickly (especially if I had a DOB in-hand). Behningen is basically a “pure” guess as you put it but if the book were available I could check extremely quickly, and if there were a name and DOB match then I would probably be satisfied.

Checking “Register” instead of “digital verfügbar” in the archion search produces

Niedersachsen: Landeskirchliches Archiv Hannover > Kirchenkreis Rotenburg > Neuenkirchen > Kirchenbücher ab 1729

Which links to https://www.landeskirchlichesarchiv-hannover.de/familienforschung/lesestellen

I think this site is inaccessible and has been for some time. It has the same favicon as https://kirchengemeindelexikon.de/ that you linked.

I’m open to visiting the archive in Hannover, it’s not so far for me. It’s just as a newbie quite hard to figure out whether that is truly the only option (e.g. I wouldn’t have thought to check ancestry.com for example, and it is also hard to tell which books they have available, so Schneverdingen as the case example where it they have it but archion does not)

 

[vnagel2004]

Niedersachsen: Landeskirchliches Archiv Hannover > Kirchenkreis Rotenburg > Neuenkirchen > Kirchenbücher ab 1729

Which links to https://www.landeskirchlichesarchiv-hannover.de/familienforschung/lesestellen

I think this site is inaccessible and has been for some time. It has the same favicon as https://kirchengemeindelexikon.de/ that you linked.

I’m open to visiting the archive in Hannover, it’s not so far for me. it but archion does not)

The only(!) option right now to either access the microfilmed church registers for Neuenkirchen (Lüneburger Heide) or for Soltau is to visit the non-profit genealogical society "Niedersächsicher Landesverein für Familienforschung" in Hannover --- that is NO archive! ---- please refer to my message # 2 in this thread, link titled "Microfiches...."

These people, working on research requests, are very well versed - so why not send them a simple, initial and precise request for a look-up in the Neuenkirchen (Lüneburger Heide) church registers?
If your ancestor is found, you can still decide to undertake the journey and search for more.

The "archive" / "Lesestelle" of the concerned church archive is already closed since end of 2021! It cannot be visited anymore!

Zentrale Lesestelle beim Kirchenbuchamt Hannover AUFGELÖST

Soeben zu meinem ganz großen Bedauern gelesen: https://www.landeskirchlichesarchiv-hannover.de/allgemeines/aktuelles/2021_10_12 [Zitat] Zentrale Lesestelle beim Kirchenbuchamt Hannover aufgelöst! Nachricht 12. Oktober 2021 Zentrale Lesestelle schließt zum Jahresende Völlig...

www.archion.de

 

[barberchris]

Ah wow. I’m sorry I missed that and really appreciate your patience in steering me in the right direction. I will start by checking with the Verein with a precise request like you say.

It is a bit a crazy state of affairs and hard to grasp coming into it from the outside!

 

[corilo]

Thanks for the reply. I had indeed stumbled on this one. I wasn’t sure how reliable it is. I expect to find maybe a Nottorf/Notdorf born in Soltau in 1856 based on this bio

Memorial and Biographical Record of Iowa - 1896 - N

There definitely seem to be many but none in 1856

Familiennamenliste Ortsfamilienbuch Soltau

From the looks of it, I should see in that list even if the birth record is “outside” Soltau. Some information in that bio seems anyways to be wrong because I can’t find any existence of a Benigen. The GOV database on that site is quite nice for finding historical districts; I used it before for another location, in Preußen. Unclear what might have been meant by “Benigen.”

If I could check the microfilms and go to that spot (1856) chronologically and see the absence of a record, that would feel like a stronger negative finding than just not finding him on this site. But maybe the data on the site is high quality, and I should just keep searching elsewhere...

Hi,
you may like to contact me via the online OFB Soltau. There is a contact on the right hand side (click on my name). I'm working on that OFB and may be able to help you with the Nottorf from Mittelstendorf.
Best, Corinna