Why is Klein in front of Surnames

M

mlangiano99

Hello,

I am not sure if you assist with these types of questions.

I think I have found my ancestors birth record.

https://www.archion.de/en/viewer/churchRegister/322045?cHash=015a786a302fa8d4d3d56a249e2e3b29
(Image 183 #60)

Dad: Ewart Klein Helmkamp
Mom: Anna Maria S????
Child: Johan Wilhelm

Johan Wilhelm Helmkamp is my ancestors name and his death record indicates his age
being born around 1771 in Engter. He was also married in Engter.

My question is why do some of the surnames have Klein in front of them and others
don't. Does Klein mean something in German other than it being another common
surname.

I think the above link is his birth record, but the Klein in front of the surname
has to be doubtful. Another reason for doubt is his death record from Gelderland, Netherlands
indicates he was born in Hunteburg, which is very close to Engter/Hanover. Unfortunately, the records for Hunteburg
on Archion do not got go back that far.

I have seen Klein in front of other surnames as well, but not sure where it
originates.

I have tried researching this answer on my own and cannot seem to find a good one
answer.
 
Unfortunately the link is not working.

Please read this topic how to create a valid Permalink for Archion available records

Keine Lesehilfe ohne Permalink / No Reading Aid without Permalink

Mit unseren Permalinks können Sie auf eine ganz bestimmte Stelle einer Kirchenbuchseite auf Archion verlinken, um im Forum darüber zu diskutieren oder Lesehilfe zu einem bestimmten Eintrag zu erhalten. With our permalinks, you can link to a very specific place on a church book page on Archion...
www.archion.de

------------------------------------

I've again moved your topic to the correct forum for LOWER Saxony / Niedersachsen (not: Saxony!).
Please have a look at the forum structure - thank you.

KInd Regards, Vera
 
Your permalink is perfectly working. Thanks. (y)

--------------------------------

As to the differently surnames > i.e. Helmkamp versus Kleinhelmkamp

Upfront please note that "Kleinhelmkamp" is one word, not two. This is one(!) "compound" name.
"Klein" is not in front of a surname, it's part of a surname.

When you look up the German word "klein" in a dictionary, it provides it's English equivalent as "little / small"

Here the syllable "klein" is used to differentiate families / family members from each other.

Such approach is found -especially in this German region- in communities with a great number of people having an identical family name and/or additionally having the same or similar given names.

A similar approach in general(!) is to add words like senior or junior / the elder or the younger / to the name of people.

Another example would i.e. be to differentiate a person with a big farm from another person -having the same family name- living or possessing a small farm (= the small farmer).

Hope that helps.
 
Thank you for the information. That helps out a lot. Would that mean that Johan Wilhelm Helmkamp and Johan Wilhelm Kleinhelmkamp are two different people?

On Johan Wilhelm Helmkamp's 1795 Marriage Record and all of his kids records his name appears as Helmkamp without the Klein. Do you think that the person listed in the Permalink is a different Johan Wilhelm?
 
I am thinking it might be because his death record indicates he was born in Hunteburg. The birth years for both Johan Wilhelm's are the same so this is a tough one for me.
 
I need to add an important aspect to my previous reply.

Still in the 18. Century (and a number of centuries previous) there existed two "Vollerbenhöfe" (farms): Große - Helmkamp and Kleine - Helmkamp near Everinghausen.

(Please note the different spelling with the "e" at the end!)

Everinghausen is immediately next to the village Helmkamp / Helmkaemper Ort

www.google.com

Evinghausen to Helmkamp

www.google.com www.google.com
 
Yes, I knew of the village of Helmkamp and figured it had some sort of relevance to my family, but not sure how. All of the Helmkamps seem to be farmers and even continued to be in the USA. I have not been able to find any records for Helmkamp. Probably will not considering it's size.
 
Is this part of your ancestry?
[If so, is it possible that your extensive website is not totally up to date? BTW Nice to learn that it was created with John Cardinal's GedSite. I know John for many years already.]


[1820 marriage]

#17
Hermann Henrich Helmkamp, in Tormöhlens Leibzucht,
mit Anna Maria Helena Barkhowwen [Barkhowwe / Barkhoff]
copulirt den 14 ten Juli

Viewer

www.archion.de www.archion.de


[1821 birth / baptism - 1rst born child of the above couple]

#29
Pat. [Latin = pater] Herman Henrich Helmkamp, in Johanns Leibzucht
Mat. [Latin = mater] Marie Helena Barkhowwen [Barkhowwe / Barkhoff], Eheleute
Inf. [Latin = infans] Heinrich Wilhelm, nat. [Latin = natus] den 16 April, bapt. [Latin = baptizatus] den 23 April
Patr. [Latin = patrini] Johann Wilhelm Helmkamp, Gerd Henrich Barkhowwe, Marie Elsabein Barkhowwen

Viewer

www.archion.de www.archion.de


[1795 marriage - parents of Hermann Henrich / Heinrich Helmkamp]

#12
Spus [Latin = sponsus] Johann Wilhelm Helmkamp
Spa [Latin = sponsa] Cathrina Maria Hallenbeks [Hollenbek / Hollenbeck / Holbeck], beide aus hiesigem Kirchspiel
copuliert den 21 August


[1797 birth / baptism Hermann Henrich Helmkamp - 1rst born child of the above couple]

#35
P [Latin = pater] Johann Wilhelm Helmkamp
M [Latin = mater] Cathrina Marie Hallenbeks [Hollenbek / Hollenbeck / Holbeck]
Inf [Latin = infans] Hermann Henrich
nat. [Latin = natus] den 12 Mai, bapt. [Latin = baptizatus] den 21 Mai
Susc [Latin = susceptores] Hermann Eberhard Helmkamp, Hermann Heinrich Hallenbeck, Marie Gerdruth Knillen [Knille]

Viewer

www.archion.de www.archion.de


Just trying to understand the connections....
More tomorrow.

Vera
 
Yes, this is all 100% correct. I actually have a "Helmkamp Family Book" that was passed down from generation to generation and I was able to get my hands on a copy of it. Thanks to Archion I was able to surpass the Family Book and then some. That book will be published on my website during the next update.

The only detail you mentioned above that is slightly different is the 1821 1st born child. I do have that child documented, however, somewhere along the line I found a child before Heinrich Wilhelm named Gerhard Henry, but he was born in Belm. I have a marriage record from here in the USA that he was born around 1820 in Belm, but I cannot find the record anywhere. But other than that we have identical records.

As far as my website, that is awesome that you know John Cardinal. His program is amazing and there is probably so much more I could do that is over my head, but for my audience it works. It is a very small audience if any at all. I do not know him personally, but he has helped me on a few occasions and he is good guy. You are correct my website is extremely out-of-date. I have favored more of the Italian side and neglected the German side. This pass that I have paid for is my last pass before I push a web update. I have over 6Gb of data to upload and over 2,000 more individuals to add, the Helmkamp Family being one of them. I have also added the Hausman's from Burscheid, Klein's from Bad Bergzabern, and Penningroth's from Petershagen. Plus, many more Italians, LOL! I have all of that information saved to my PC currently, but making a last minute effort to get some more Helmkamp information before I publish.

Vera, I truly thank you so much for helping me and appreciate your wisdom. You have been amazing. I had to teach myself how to read old Italian script and have had to learn the hard way also with German. German is much harder to me, but I am getting there. I am sorry for the mistakes I made early on. I am new to forums in general and I am definitely not trying to be difficult.
 
mlangiano99 schrieb:
The only detail you mentioned above that is slightly different is the 1821 1st born child. I do have that child documented, however, somewhere along the line I found a child before Heinrich Wilhelm named Gerhard Henry, but he was born in Belm. I have a marriage record from here in the USA that he was born around 1820 in Belm, but I cannot find the record anywhere. But other than that we have identical records.

cult.
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Well, as you're saying there is no birth / baptism record for a Gerhard Heinrich (Henry) around 1820 in Belm.
Even if you take into consideration that this child may have been born out of wedlock and therefore be recorded under the mother's family name "Barkhowwe / Barghoff" -- nothing.

You said that the members of this Helmkamp family were farmers, in Germany as well as later in the U.S. - that's correct.

However, at least the above mentioned Hermann Heinrich apparently didn't own own farmland, nor did he own a house. Instead he seemed to have been a tenant only, since his place of residence is provided as "in Tormoehlens Leibzucht", or as "in Johanns Leibzucht".

A "Leibzucht" / life tenancy is either a special part within a farmhouse or may also be a small house on the same ground as the farm house for the old aged farmer (and his wife) after the next generation inherited the property.
It may also be used to house tenants, not related to the farmer's family, or even farm hands and their families, if any.

------------------------------

Yes, the world can definitely be small like a village, right? John is really a good and always willing to help man of very profound knowledge. Looking back it seems to be about almost 2 decades that we know each other (only to mention TMG, SecondSite, GedSite...)

One additional thing I want to outline: in case any genealogical questions arise after your pass ended, you can still use the Archion forum as long as you're a registered user.

You're welcome.
 
vnagel2004 schrieb:
Patr. [Latin = mother] Johann Wilhelm Helmkamp, Gerd Henry Barkhowwen, Marie Elizabeth Barkhowwen
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
vnagel2004 schrieb:
Susc [Latin = susceptores] Hermann Eberhard Helmkamp, Hermann Heinrich Hallenbeck, Marie Gerruth Knillen [Knille]
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Trying to understand the terms a bit better. Patrini is sponsors when I translate it. Johan Wilhelm is Herman Heinrich's Dad and I also have Gerhard Heinrich as Maria Helena Barkhoff/Barkhowwen Dad according to her 1796 birth record. However, not sure who Marie Elsabein Barkhowwen is. According to Maria Helena's birth record her mom is Maria Adelheit Molkenstroth. Could this be a sister of Gerd Heinrich Barkhowwen or do I have the wrong record for Maria Helena, Line/Record #8?

When I translate Susceptores it means receivers. These names standout to me big time. Here is why. The 1770 birth record for Johan Wilhelm KleinHelmkamp has the dad listed as what I thought said Ewart, but do not translate things correctly all of the time and wonder if it could be similiar to Eberhard in the quote above.

The other two names for Herman Heinrich Hallenbeck and Maria Geruth Knillen are of interest as well. From my research and yours, Johan Wilhelm Helmkamp Wife was Catharine Marie Hollenbak/Hallenbeck. I have her being born 17May1767 in Engter to Johann Heinrich Hollenbak and Anna Catherine Rentzenbrink. However, on Hermann Heinrich Helmkamp's FindaGrave bio. It says her name is Anna Catharina Maria Hollenbeck born 1765. I did find a Anna Catharina Maria Hollenbeck born 27May1765 with the parents being Heinrich Hallenbeck and Maria Geruth Knillen. So... Am I on to somthing here? The only detail that makes me feel like my 1767 birth record is correct is the name Anna. On all of their kids' birth records it is just Catharina Maria with no Anna, On her marriage record to Johan Wilhelm it is just Catharina Maria. Even when they moved to the Netherlands she is listed as Catharina Maria. So I am thinking the FindaGrave Bio is incorrect, but now I don't know. Do you have any ideas on this?
 
I am sorry, but the relation of Marie Elsabein Barkhowwen to the rest of the family needs to be closely researched in order not to end up in assumptions about her connection.

The 1796 birth/baptism record for Maria Helena is correct.

"susceptores" is another term used for sponsors.

1770 birth record for Johan Wilhelm:
Pater: Ewert Kleinhelmkamp
Mater: Anna Maria Seulschots [Seulschot / Sielschot / Sielschott]
Infans: Johan Wilhelm, den 16 Nov.
Patrini: Claus Wilhelm Kleinhelmkamp, Johann Hermann Holland, Anna Margaretha Kleinhelmkamp

Father's given name: Ewert ---- not: Ewart

Ewert is considered to may(!!) be a derivation / shortened form of Everhard / Eberhard
de.wiktionary.org

Ewert – Wiktionary

de.wiktionary.org de.wiktionary.org


To clearly and undoubtedly reliable determine the correct birth record for Johann Wilhelm Helmkamps wife is a perfect example how much efforts are required for such research.
As an aside the FindaGrave information you found is most likely based on something close to "hear-say". Obviously the person who provided this doesn't have any detailed and proven information about (Anna) Catharina Maria birth, nor her parents.


vnagel2004 schrieb:
[1797 birth / baptism Hermann Henrich Helmkamp - 1rst born child of the above couple]

#35
P [Latin = pater] Johann Wilhelm Helmkamp
M [Latin = mater] Cathrina Marie Hallenbeks [Hollenbek / Hollenbeck / Holbeck]
Inf [Latin = infans] Hermann Henrich
nat. [Latin = natus] den 12 Mai, bapt. [Latin = baptizatus] den 21 Mai
Susc [Latin = susceptores] Hermann Eberhard Helmkamp, Hermann Heinrich Hallenbeck, Marie Gerdruth Knillen [Knille]

Viewer

www.archion.de www.archion.de


Just trying to understand the connections....
More tomorrow.

Vera
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Please also note the correct spelling of the second given name for the 3rd sponsor as already provided within my quoted message above:

Gerdruth

..not: Geruth

Thanks and regards.
 
I am currently going through the 1724-1794 Baptism Church Book, year-by-year and line-by-line creating my own index of Helmkamps, Barkhoff/Barkhowwen, Hollenbak/Hollenbeck, Molkenstroth's, and Rentzenbrinks. Hopefully in the end when I can see it all at once, the puzzle will start to come together.

I think I may have to do the same thing for Hunteburg, Venne, and maybe even Osnabruck and Bramsche. I have done a quick look into each of these towns and found Helmkamps and Hollenbaks in each of them. It will be a long journey but willing to put in the work for the answers.
 
A little note only: especially in parishes with a great number of people with almost identical family names (or in communities where it is i.e. common practice to make use of aka names - German: Genannt Name) the full picture in many cases cannot be seen before births - marriages - deaths have been analyzed.

Genanntname – Wikipedia

de.m.wikipedia.org de.m.wikipedia.org

I am sure you are totally aware of this.
 
Hello!

I just stumbled upon something that I would like to run past you. This in regards to the Helmkamps that live in Hunteburg, Germany.

My search for Helmkamps in Hunteburg began with Johan Wilhelm Helmkamp (Born~1770 - Died: 20 Mar1845).

I found his death record in Klein Dochteren, Netherlands. The family ancestry Helmkamp Book that I mentioned earlier even references a son of Johan's that moved to the Netherlands.

Here is the permalink for his 1845deathrecord. This is a Dutch Genealogy site that does not require account. The link will not take you directly to the record, but it will take you to the roll of images. If you click Image 6 at the bottom. His death record is record #15 (The first record, first page, top left). If this is an appropriate link to access in the forum, I can also download it and throw it on my webpage.

In his death record, towards the bottom it mentions he was born in "Honteburg". When trying to find that town, Hunteburg was my assumption because it was only one letter off and close to Engter. I found a bunch of Helmkamps there also so everything made sense.

However, I just stumbled on a birth/baptism index in Engter which mentions Helmkamps in Homburg or at least that is what it looks like to me.
1826BaptismIndex

My question is, in your opinion, do you think my assumption from the death record is correct in the birth town being Hunteburg? Amy I reading the 1826 birth index wrong?

Everyday I unravel a little more, but still just enough to assume with no proof. Still trying, but starting to get frustrating. I think there is a lot about German Genealogy that I do not understand. Like the customs and the traditions of naming and sponsors. I am trying to figure it out, but is slow going. I appreciate your input very much.
 
Regarding the Dutch death record: Honteburg, Konigrgt. Hannover = Hunteburg.

That‘s absolutely correct.

Regarding the quoted birth and death index:
There isn‘t any place name provided. Instead, the entry of interest reads

Helmkamp u. [und] Horstmann

1826, record #46

Viewer

www.archion.de www.archion.de

Father: Horstmann aka Helmkamp / Kleinhelmkamp

Please refer to one of my previous replies regarding „Genannt Name“ - AKA names
 
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
Ah. I read it wrong then. I was reading the U. as "in" or from. What does the u. (und) mean and why is Horstmann listed? it looks like the give name is Friedrich Claus??? or Chaus or Christ??
 
Please closely re-read my message.
And please also look-up what I already wrote in this thread regarding AKA names / German: Genanntname
I even provided a link to Wikipedia for this.
Thanks.

Father:
given names: Christian Friedrich
family name: Horstmann aka Helmkamp / Klein-Helmkamp

Mother:
given names: Anna Maria
family name: Helmkamp / Klein-Helmkamp
maiden name: Diekmann

child‘s given names: Friedrich Christian

This child‘s father „inherited“ the family name Helmkamp / Klein-Helmkamp by marrying onto the Helmkamp estate.
 
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