Reading Aid 1833 burial in Schlotheim

JLFrank · Samstag um 17:29

Please help with reading this Burial record for #1 Justine Dorothee Francke, wife of Georg Michael Francke.

I believe Georg Michael Francke may be the father of Georg Henrich Francke, who is my 3 x great grandfather In his son's marriage record of 1846 he is listed as "Georg Heinrich Francke, Citizen (bürger) and Surgeon (Chirurgus) right here (all here)." I am thinking that It is saying that Georg Michael Francke is also a Surgeon. Am I correct? Thank you.

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Anne23 · Samstag um 22:09

Hallo,

mein Versuch:

1833

Susanne Dorothee Francke

weiland Herrn Georg
Michael Francke
gewesener Chirurgi
allhier nachgelaßene
Wittwe

den 1. ersten Januar 1. ein
Uhr Mittags

den 4. vierten Januar

auf hiesigem
Gottesacker, in
der Stille, Abends

75. Fünf und
siebenzig Jahre

Schlagfluß

Schlagfluss – GenWiki

Gottesacker – Schreibung, Definition, Bedeutung, Etymologie, Synonyme, Beispiele | DWDS

LG

Anne23 · Samstag um 22:34

Hallo,

dies müsste die Taufe des Georg Heinrich Francke sein, der unehelich geboren wurde:

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und die anschließende Heirat der Eltern:

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LG

JLFrank · Sonntag um 00:21

What?! I totally missed seeing the record of birth in that book. I had just found the 1822 marriage but assumed that it was a second marriage.
In the 1820 Baptism record I can see Georg Heinrich written in, But I can't make out mother's name. Is it the same as bride in 1822?

Really confused. Georg Heinrich Francke marries in 1846 and is listed as
Groom: Bachelor Georg Heinrich Francke, Resident and Teamster (Anspänner) right here (allhier); the legitimate first son and first child of Georg Heinrich Francke, Citizen (Bürger) and Surgeon (Chirurgus) right here (allhier).
Can he be listed as legitimate if wasn't?

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Thank you again for the reading and finding his birth record. I skipped right over it!

vnagel2004 · Sonntag um 05:37

Please excuse me for jumping in on a tiny detail.

German: Chirurgus in 1833 and earlier is not(!) equal
English/American English: surgeon

Instead the English equivalent is: barber surgeon

Thanks.
Vera

Anne23 · Sonntag um 09:45

Hallo,

ich hatte bei einer letzten Anfrage den Wundarzt angegeben, in dem auch der Barber/Barbier erwähnt wird:

Barbier – GenWiki

Wundarzt – Wikipedia

JLFrank schrieb:
But I can't make out mother's name. Is it the same as bride in 1822?

Ja, es ist dieselbe Frau, (Johanna) Friedricke Henriette Bierwirth.

JLFrank schrieb:
Can he be listed as legitimate if wasn't?

Ja, da er bei der Geburt als Vater eingetragen ist, er hat die Vaterschaft anerkannt und die Geburt wurde durch die anschließende Heirat legitimiert.

LG

vnagel2004 · Sonntag um 09:45

JLFrank schrieb:
Can he be listed as legitimate if wasn't?

To be precise form the legal perspective: no, not at all.

He was born out of wedlock.
However, he wears the family name of his (biological) father.

That is by law only possible if his father: 1) explicitly declares his fatherhood for him, and(!) 2) by explicitly allowing that he wears his (the father's) family name.

In short > the child having been born out of wedlock becomes the legitimate [German: gesetzlich, rechtmäßig, legitime] child of his father and his mother.

That a couple marries at a later point in time does not(!) at all -not in those ancient days, and still not today- automatically make all of their previously, out of wedlock born children > "legitimate."

Thus, to use the term "legitimate" to imply a child was born inside wedlock, or that a child is a marital / nuptial child, is definitely kind of imprecise.

Hope that helps. Thanks, Vera

JLFrank · Sonntag um 19:30

Thanks again
I see now that based on Susanna's burial notice that her husband is deceased

And I think I can finally see "Friedr Henrietta Bierwirth", but is the first word Johanna ? And what is the word after the father's name, starts with an L______?

And thanks for explanation about the legitimacy.

vnagel2004 · Sonntag um 20:31

1822 marriage

Bride:

Friedrieke Henriette Bier-
wirth, Johann Heinrich Bier-
wirths, Anspänners und Beckers
allhier 2. zweite Tochter, 4. viertes
Kind, 1. erster Ehe

1820 birth

Mother: Johanne Friedr.
Henriette Bierwirth

Although the given name "Johanne" appears" in 1820, she's the identical person as the bride in 1822.

JLFrank · Gestern um 00:37

Thank you for the reading of the Johanne Friedr. Henriette Bierwirth records.. I think I am finally understanding these two records.

Can you also please read the information for records of Georg Heinrich Francke. In the marriage record for instance, is it saying his father is deceased?

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In the baptism record, what is the word after Georg Heinrich Francke, starts with an L______?

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Thank you

vnagel2004 · Gestern um 00:58

JLFrank schrieb:
Can you also please read the information for records of Georg Heinrich Francke. In the marriage record for instance, is it saying his father is deceased?

Georg Heinrich Francke, ledig, Barbierer, allhier,
weiland [verstorbenen] Herrn Georg Michael Francke, gewesenen
Chirurgus allhier hinterlaßener 1. erster Sohn, 1. erstes
Kind, 1. einziger Ehe

Please again note the two instances of a > barber surgeon(!!)
Such people for instance never visited any kind of university or the like with regard to their professional education.

vnagel2004 · Gestern um 01:01

JLFrank schrieb:
In the baptism record, what is the word after Georg Heinrich Francke, starts with an L______?

Same as in the marriage record: Barbirer [Barbier]

JLFrank · Gestern um 23:11

Thank you, obviously I need help with reading!
Interesting how they use the words Barbierer, and Chirurgus. Read up about it on Wikipedia. Definitely was not the same as university trained surgeons. I get the difference. Just find interesting about father and son.
Also interesting about father's death before 1822 and he must have had more than 1 marriage.
Thanks again.