Marriage record proofing please

[Tkbecker]

http://www.archion.de/p/8ac70b3fe0/

D. 17. Novembris, sind ju(venis) einer Predigt Copulirt worden Johann Carl Munz, Chirurgus, Johann Jacob Munzen, Baron Von Hal Unterthanen, Chirurgi, and jetz Gerichts zu Allfdorf, ehelich lediger sohn, und Veronica, Weiland Johann Ulrich Widmanns, gewesenen Schultheißen, und Chirurgi allhier nachgeblirbene ehelich ledige Tochter

Thank you,

Tina

 

[Molamola]

Hello,
there is already a lot right.
I read the marriage entry as follows:



MDCCLXXII.



D. 17. Novembris sind zu einer Pre-

digt copulirt worden Johann Carl

Munz, Chirurgus, Johann Jacob

Munzen, Baron von Holz Unter-

thanen, Chirurgi und des Ge-

richts zu Allfdorff ehelich-ledi-

ger Sohn, und Veronica, Weyland

Johann Ulrich Weilmanns, gewese-

nen Schultheißen und Chirurgi

allhier nachgebliebene ehelich-ledi-

ge Tochter, Tentus ?,





on the right side:

proclam

Tr.

XIX. XX. XXII.




The couple was married on Tuesday, November 17, 1772.
The 3rd proclamation was the 22nd after Trinity, the 15.11.1772.
Therefore, the capital letter D before the date could stand for Tuesday (in German Dienstag).


Two interesting pages:
1. days in the church year:
https://www.stilkunst.de/s311_ev_jahr.php



2. the noble family of Holtz:

Holtz (Adelsgeschlecht) – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

Best regards

 

[Molamola]

The bride's maiden name "Widmann" could also be correct.

 

[Tkbecker]

Hello,
there is already a lot right.
I read the marriage entry as follows:



MDCCLXXII.



D. 17. Novembris sind zu einer Pre-

digt copulirt worden Johann Carl

Munz, Chirurgus, Johann Jacob

Munzen, Baron von Holz Unter-

thanen, Chirurgi und des Ge-

richts zu Allfdorff ehelich-ledi-

ger Sohn, und Veronica, Weyland

Johann Ulrich Weilmanns, gewese-

nen Schultheißen und Chirurgi

allhier nachgebliebene ehelich-ledi-

ge Tochter, Tentus ?,





on the right side:

proclam

Tr.

XIX. XX. XXII.




The couple was married on Tuesday, November 17, 1772.
The 3rd proclamation was the 22nd after Trinity, the 15.11.1772.
Therefore, the capital letter D before the date could stand for Tuesday (in German Dienstag).


Two interesting pages:
1. days in the church year:
https://www.stilkunst.de/s311_ev_jahr.php



2. the noble family of Holtz:

Holtz (Adelsgeschlecht) – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

Best regards

Thank you.

Do you think this means he was a surgeon for Baron von Holz,

Unterthanen meaning subject of?

 

[Molamola]

It could be possible. Perhaps they both served the Baron as physicians, otherwise this would not have been mentioned in the marriage entry.
Unterthan (today Untertan) stands for: subordinate to a higher person, subjected, servable

 

[user722]

ge Tochter, Tentus ?,

Textus, Ps.⟨alm⟩ XXXII,8 - https://www.bibleserver.com/LUT/Psalm32
‘8 Ich will dich unterweisen und dir den Weg zeigen, / den du gehen sollst; ich will dich mit meinen Augen leiten.’

Therefore, the capital letter D before the date could stand for Tuesday (in German Dienstag).

I don’t think so, rather: ‘Den’ - see beginning of 3rd entry on the left side

 

[vnagel2004]

It could be possible. Perhaps they both served the Baron as physicians, otherwise this would not have been mentioned in the marriage entry.
Unterthan (today Untertan) stands for: subordinate to a higher person, subjected, servable

I am really sorry, but not so.

Until 1805 all people residing in Alfdorf were "Untertanen" / subject of the noble family Holtz, because Alfdorf became a property of the Holtz family in 1628. So the noble family Holtz owned the land, had the jurisdiction etc.

In order to leave Alfdorf and perhaps settle at any other place people had to ask the Baron for his permission. That said it was totally normal to note in any record whose subject somebody was.

Whether the surgeons also served the Baron had nothing to do with this.

---------------------------------------

One other aspect which may perhaps be of additional interest: the vast majority of surgeons in the 17. and 18. Century (and earlier) did not study at any university. Instead they were so-called Handwerks-Chirurgen - say they learned their business "learning by doing" i.e. during their military service, or while working for other senior surgeons.

 

[Tkbecker]

I am really sorry, but not so.

Until 1805 all people residing in Alfdorf were "Untertanen" / subject of the noble family Holtz, because Alfdorf became a property of the Holtz family in 1628. So the noble family Holtz owned the land, had the jurisdiction etc.

In order to leave Alfdorf and perhaps settle at any other place people had to ask the Baron for his permission. That said it was totally normal to note in any record whose subject somebody was.

Whether the surgeons also served the Baron had nothing to do with this.

---------------------------------------

One other aspect which may perhaps be of additional interest: the vast majority of surgeons in the 17. and 18. Century (and earlier) did not study at any university. Instead they were so-called Handwerks-Chirurgen - say they learned their business "learning by doing" i.e. during their military service, or while working for other senior surgeons.

Thank you for the clarifications and additional information. My first instinct was that it just meant he was a subject, but just wanted to verify in case there was another way to understand it.

Tina