Sophie Erbigs Eltern

schneiderdan
Mitglied seit
03.06.2020

84 Beiträge

Leute, wir folgen den Linien unserer Vorfahren und sind auf einige Schwierigkeiten gestoßen, also fragen wir uns, ob einer von Ihnen bitte helfen könnte.

In dieser Heiratsurkunde scheint Sophie Erbigs Muttername "Marie Haberland" zu sein. > http://www.archion.de/p/cb5fb9962a/

Es heißt auch, dass Sophie an diesem Tag 30 Jahre alt sein würde, daher sollte es nicht schwer sein, ihre Taufe zu finden.

Aber die einzige Aufzeichnung, die wir gefunden haben und die mit Datum und Nachname übereinstimmt, war diese, bei der der Name der Mutter ganz anders zu sein scheint:
http://www.archion.de/p/941ad492e6/

Wir haben auch die Ehe dieses Paares hier gefunden:
http://www.archion.de/p/dba7aacd16/

Aber mit dieser Verwirrung fragen wir uns jetzt, ob wir die richtigen Aufzeichnungen gefunden haben. Könnten Sie bitte helfen?

Danke im Voraus!! =)

vnagel2004
Mitglied seit
18.12.2014

2161 Beiträge

Good evening,

>>In dieser Heiratsurkunde scheint Sophie Erbigs Muttername "Marie Haberland" zu sein. > http://www.archion.de/p/cb5fb9962a/
<<

This is no marriage record - it's a marriage announcement only. (German: Aufgebot)

As your record says, the marriage(!) was in Priorau.

see here: http://www.archion.de/p/616a3a74f9/

>>Wir haben auch die Ehe dieses Paares hier gefunden:
http://www.archion.de/p/dba7aacd16/
<<

This is again no marriage record - but again a marriage announcement only. (German: Aufgebot)

As your record in this case says, the marriage(!) was in Tornau.

Tornau church registers aren't available at Archion so far.

###################################

The maiden name of Sophie Erbig's mother is in Raguhn registers indeed provided as Marie geb. Haberland / Marie nee Haberland

In Sophie Erbig's marriage record in Priorau her mother's name isn't provided at all.

Looking at the 1806 marriage announcement in Priorau, Johann Georg Carl Erbig married Johanna Christina geb. Westphalin / Westphal / Johanna Christina nee Westphal.

So not only the maiden name is different, but also the given names differ.

You should check if Johann Georg Carl Erbig married for a second time after 1806 und before 1837.
If so this subsequent wife could perhaps be a "Marie nee Haberland" which may explain the entry in Raguhn and make "Marie nee Haberland" to Sophie's stepmother instead of her biological mother.

Whatever it takes: you need to spend more research into this.

Best, Vera

BTW: "Leute" is a very colloquial form to address people, you don't know in person.

vnagel2004
Mitglied seit
18.12.2014

2161 Beiträge

An addition to my post above.

I wrote:

....
>>Wir haben auch die Ehe dieses Paares hier gefunden:
http://www.archion.de/p/dba7aacd16/
<<

This is again no marriage record - but again a marriage announcement only. (German: Aufgebot)

As your record in this case says, the marriage(!) was in Tornau.

Tornau church registers aren't available at Archion so far.
....

In case you will ever decide to search for this 1806 marriage record in Tornau, it needs to be determined which place named Tornau is meant here:

Tornau, today part of Gräfenhainichen OR
Tornau, near Halle an der Saale (Halle / Saale)

Greetings again, Vera

schneiderdan
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03.06.2020

84 Beiträge

Hallo, Vera! Thank you for your attention (and for teaching us about "Leute".

Thank you for showing us the actual marriage records. We'll follow your advice and look for a second marriage so we can try to better understand this history. We had no idea those records weren't of the actual marriage. How do we see the difference? Only at the end (if I can read the actual place)? Or is there the word "Aufgebot" somewhere? I now noticed the word "Proclamation" (or something similar) at the top of the first announcement's page. Maybe this is it?

Grüße! =)

vnagel2004
Mitglied seit
18.12.2014

2161 Beiträge

Good evening Daniel,

see the final column on the right in Raguhn's register: Priorau am 17. p. Tri. / am 17 post Trinitatis

http://www.archion.de/p/28d3d766e3/

Unfortunately there are no column headings on this church register page.

So go a few pages back and you'll find that the column heading for this specific column is "die Trauung" = the marriage

Second: Priorau register... the corresponding left side for the 1806 marriage announcement "Erbig - Westphal" is here:

http://www.archion.de/p/2cef150f6d/

Here the column heading clearly says: Ort der Trauung = place of marriage and for your entry of interest (second line!) it tells: in der Kirche zu Tornau = in the church at Tornau

########################

Something about wording:

Trauung = Heirat = Eheschliessung = marriage

Proclamation = Aufgebot = proclamation or marriage announcement

I trust you know a good online dictionary which will help.
Google translate -in example- isn't the best choice for this - to say at least.

Best, Vera

vnagel2004
Mitglied seit
18.12.2014

2161 Beiträge

BTW

Marie (Sophie) Erbig, eldest(!) daughter from the marriage "Erbig - Westphal" in Priorau got married in 1837 to Samuel Christoph Richter

- see final entry in Raguhn register on right the same page you quoted in your initial message

http://www.archion.de/p/74a87ab15d/

That said: the birth/baptism record in Priorau in 1807 is for a different girl than you are looking for.

Other than that: the 1837 marriage announcement to which you referred in Raguhn tells about the bride... she is:

Sophie
Erbig
ehel. jüng-
ste Tochter
des

--> Sophie Erbig, legitimate youngest(!) daughter of....

Vera

schneiderdan
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03.06.2020

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I see. We'll have to pay more attention to these things then. Thanks again, Vera, for pointing that out and for all the tips! =)

vnagel2004
Mitglied seit
18.12.2014

2161 Beiträge

Zitiert von: vnagel2004
...
In case you will ever decide to search for this 1806 marriage record in Tornau, it needs to be determined which place named Tornau is meant here:

Tornau, today part of Gräfenhainichen OR
Tornau, near Halle an der Saale (Halle / Saale)
...

Good morning,

not to forget in this context

Tornau vor der Heide, today part of Raguhn-Jeßnitz

see i.e. here:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornau_vor_der_Heide

Regards, Vera

schneiderdan
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03.06.2020

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Thank you, Vera! =)

Just to make sure: despite being in Raguhn-Jeßnitz, this Tornau is still not part of Archion's records, right?

Also, we've searched again for Sophia Erbig/Herwig's baptism, but with no success. It's a real puzzle, this one, because, according to the marriage announcement, she got married at 30 years old, and according to the actual marriage record, her father was Johann George Carl Erbig, the exact same name (and expected year) on that baptism. But that information about being the eldest/youngest daughter really is at least misterious, along with the name of the mother. We also looked in Retzau, but no success... We wonder if we missed something.. We'll resume this search later. Maybe we'll think of something else. =)

vnagel2004
Mitglied seit
18.12.2014

2161 Beiträge

Good morning,

that‘s correct - these church registers as well aren‘t already online.

Regarding „Sophia“....
-search for her death record in order to perhaps get an additional indicator pointing to her possible year of birth

-closely research her father‘s immediate(!) family ... as you will find, he had another daughter who had „Sophie/Sophia“ among her given names

and in general always keep in mind that any ages recorded in church registers are indicators only(!) about when a person might have been born etc.
Such information never should be taken for granted!

Precise, detailed and profound research is always required.

Vera